Wednesday, October 1, 2008
Still nothing on the Surveyor's Race?!?!
At the present time, it seems as if not a person cares about the Surveyor's race.? Denny nor Randy seem to want to push the issue that Lee is sitting on two boards illegally resulting from a Republican appointment. Now subsequently running as an independent. I am suprised to see that Denny hasnt gotten Bedrock on that for a lawsuit? or will he wait for the end result in the election? OR- - - - does he think that Lee splits the vote more on Randy's side than his? Yes.. No? It is rather desparaging that Lee is passing out bright colored flyers saying " Lee Nagai will work for the people, not the politicians. No party politics- Not Politics as usual" The truth is that Lee trys to follow the "R" but didnt make the cut off to sign up as a republican. and a further fact of the matter is that Lee IS currently working FOR politicians and himself- Not Starke County
60 comments:
please tell Mr. Nagai not to put those flyers in my mail box
margie f
maybe someone should tell Terry Turner. he likes to publish juvenile names in that NewsChicken news paper. Im sure he would like to publish this. Even if its true or untrue.
Well.. Looks like you cant touch lee? Hes still working and on those two boards...!
May be an interesting Planning Commission meeting on Wednesday.
Well people, what choice do we really have. Nagai is the only one with credentials and is dis liked. Estok has to win this so he can get his retirement from the county and if he don't will probably start another law suit. (at least it won't include chambers this time) Johnson from what I have heard is pretty good at leaning against the side of a county truck making sure the paint don't slide off. So whats the deal. It looks to me like the same old boys will be in office just in a different part screwing us the tax payers out of maybe another 964,000. Hey have you all forgotten that. Gee wiz I haven't, because it comes out of my pay check every week. Hey here is a good question. Remember that schrader guy? I do I voted for him, in my opinion he seemed pretty smart from the news articals calling for accountability. I was talking with a couple of people who said he won, I heard on the news he was winning and then just nothing. I guess the rumors might be true that some of the good old boys went to chicago politics to make sure accountability would stay out of starke county. So here is my input. I am going to vote for this Nagai because he is suppose to be able to do the job. If estok gets in and mackillop don't, here say is mackillop gets the county supervisor job and estok sucks on his suckers all day rocking back and forth in his squeeky old chair. So if things go the way I think they will, we will still have the same leaches sucking our pockets dry doing nothing. I have a answer for this on my end. I will have to go out and get a second job along with everyone else so we can cover the expences for the next mil lost in the shuffle. Wake up people
Starke County sux...I have a challenge for you then.. Why dont you "bust out" all the candidates/incumbents/current office holders that you feel are the leeches in starke county government? perhaps advocate getting away from just pulling the "D" or the "R"
If Lee is not an R or a D, how is it that can serve and be appointed to a Board, when he now declared himself as an Independent? I don't think that we have any Independent seated Commissioner's!
Ok here it is, I looked up schrader, called him and asked if I could talk to him in person. I had to wait for over a week because he is an over the road truck driver. Last night I was able to speak with the guy. He was very cautious but direct with answers he gave me. First off I asked him about what he thought about the primary between him self and estok. He stated to me the vote was in and I lost. I asked about if he felt he was cheated. He only replied with I was told I won by three political figures that I should have challenged the vote. The job pays around 30,000 a year and I can stay doing what I do and make that in a couple of months. I asked him if it was true that he was having a survey problem. He replied with yes. He still has the problem and he then brought out tons of papers and surveys. He took the time to show me things that blew my mind. This guy has so many surveys from other people including his own. I asked how he got this and he replied it is a matter of public record. He showed me how screwed up the surveys are here. Every survey has discrepancies, uncertainties, and in my opinion from the surveyor on them. Many have judges orders to change the plat as he called it to make so called corrections. It was explained to me that the county is laid out in a grid, and this county does not follow the the grid. It appeared to me the county uses what it wants at the time. Schrader also has a very well know democrat look into the problem. The answer he received was this person contacted the actual county survey company who was contracted to set section points or corners. The answer was we really don't know where to start from or stop, but we do the best we can. With that done, schrader showed me how the first home built in his section now had a survey line right through the middle of that persons house. I asked what problems does your survey have. he replied with an incorrect starting section corner every property has conflict and encroachment. This in turn also means the property becomes non salable, without a correct legal description or if the owner wants out bad enough, he can sacrifice the price for loss of land and structures through a court. He showed me how he could fix the problems and it was amazing how he could start with the correct grid to have every property to work as it was described in the deeds. The problem he said is this, surveyors here in my opinion need to go back to school and re learn what they never learned in the first place. Second the surveyor of record should keep better records and when a survey comes in, it should be checked against other surveys surrounding it to make sure there are no encroachments. If this was done, this problem would have never started. He says he came from the south side of Chicago, and when he had his property surveyed there was 2 inches in question. He now has 42 feet in question here in San Pierre. His first opinion was people here are laid back, now he says they are just plain lazy. I asked what he is going to do to fix his problem, he stated to me the only thing left, sue the county for inaccurate and falsified records, restriction of trade and interference of interstate commerce. When he first moved here he brought a business and a very cool one (Godmudders Custom Truck Manufacturing ) check this web site out! he was never able to open it because of the property problems now showing his neighbor owning the building he was going to work out of. He has an occupancy permit from the county to conduct business, but can't because the building is in question, the zoning of LB local business for starke county does not cut it with the states requirements as far as commercial. The costs to correct all the problems would be to relocate again and not worth the trouble. I asked why you come here, I had some issues on the legality of what I did with modification of vehicles. It was a long dragged out nightmare that ended up in a civil suit. With the suits of violating my civil rights, they lost. I was paid and also the deal included that I must relocate out of the state in my best interest. I cannot disclose what the settlement amount was. The sad thing is after I moved in here, I come to find out that a couple of the people I had problems with back in Illinois, have vacation homes here in the Bass lake area. I asked what are you going to do now. My wife and I took a vacation to a place called Silverton Colorado. Once my property issues are fixed and damages compensated, I most likely will move on. I have one question left, and who do you support for the surveyors job. Due to the choices I will be supporting Nagai as you can see I have his sign in front. He has been here and seen what I have shown you, and he agrees that I am correct. Dennis Estok and this Johnson never approached me. Nagai has qualifications to do the job, I don't care if you hob nob with the political hacks here, I want to see results. I would like to see the results like I get out of my business, profit and prosperity, not like what I am seeing from this county financial burdens and confusion. I ran because I thought I could make a difference, but the majority of the public made its choice. I just hope the public can afford the costs it will incur from the mistakes at hand. What I find ironic is everyone is now calling for accountability. That is my line. Pretty sad it has never been practiced.
Well I am new here, and found some things of interest, starke county sux you have an interesting post about this schrader. water under the bridge does none of us any good. He is out of the race. We have Dennis, Randy and Lee to choose from. Randy is the only one with the least conflict as far as the general public. What does he know about the job and does he have the ability to do it? Lee is getting bashed for being a republican and voting democratic and now running as independent. I don't think that is so bad. It tells me he is going to vote for what he feels is right not by category. He is also suppose to have some pretty good schooling and degrees in the field of surveying or civil engineering. Not so well liked by some of the public and seems to be hated by the people he has to work with. Now we have Dennis Estok. 20 plus years of being in politics some good and some not so good. Has the ability to work with the surveyor and others, but did lose the election for mayor to chambers. Here is a question. Isn't Dennis Estok still involved in law suits over the election with chambers. I thought I had read somewhere that if you are involved with a suit against a political body that you would not be able to run for a political position until the situation was resolved. Depending on the outcome, this would also determine if he could run at all. If this is true why is Dennis Estok allowed to run with pending charges. Don't get me wrong, I am not an attorney. So if Lee Nagai has to suffer for his decisions on what position he wants - BZA board member or Surveyor - democrat/republican/independent. It would make sense to me that Dennis estok should decide what position he wants also. Lick your wounds as the loser for mayor and go for surveyor or drop the surveyor and fight for the old mayors job since this is still in court in one or more forms. I would like to know what the real figure is of money that we the tax payers are footing on this. Reading some of these posts makes me wonder about our government here. I honestly can't believe the problems this schrader has with a survey this far off, but it is evident many people are starting to talk about the problems they are having with their property and who owns what. With the last post of schrader stating the only way to get what he bought is to sue the county tells me he is pretty sure of what he is doing and doing a little back ground checking on my own this guy could walk away from all of this and not be affected. One thing for sure is the accountability issue. He took cook county on in his civil suit and did win and is listed in the ACLU for fighting for his civil rights and winning through a jury trial. I think if he uses the same attorney for his problems here, he will smoke us.
WOW lots of poop here. Looks to me we need a civilian takeover. This accountability thing is really getting popular with all the candidates. As far as I am concerned nothing will change. Just the same old poop.
Sidney, you don’t need to edit this for clarity, from what I have read you and your readers are having a hard time knowing what you are doing, ‘o well I have considered the source, that’s you in the event you didn‘t get it, and have decided you should have cut your hair in college, that would of allowed more air to the brain, more air, maybe a “little” more smarts on your behalf, but what the hell you can’t help that now at your age, now can you Sid.
“O YA Sid, I forgot to tell you that they may have some prints from the letters, still waiting on results, seems they have stopped, must be a leak in the system, maybe some stop leak will help.
What a bunch of winy people.
For all of you who want to wine and believe some B.S. about Schrader having Surveying problems here in Starke County the truth of the matter is no County Surveyor in the State of Indiana, that includes all 92 counties can Survey anything, it is illegal. The Surveyor’s job is over Ditch and Water Control Management and Section Corner Stone Referencing.
For all you that feel that Dennis Estok is a cry baby and might sue if he loses this is your lose. The fact that you are to lazy to take the time to understand the real facts and truth about the 2007 Mayoral Primary race between Dennis Estok and Ricky Chambers is again your lose. Should of taken the time to go to the courthouse and heard of the testimony of several voters who were persuaded and coached by the Chambers Clan to vote in the City of Knox when in fact they didn’t even live in Knox. 1 voter testified that he was told by Marlene Chambers that it was okay and that he wouldn’t get into any trouble for signing his brothers name to an absentee ballot, the fact that the Chambers Clan persuaded and coached anyone to cheat, as they did is a class D felony.
Some say if Chambers cheated why did the court not order a new election. This comes down to 1 man, he is the Judge and obviously his feeling was a little cheating is okay, just don’t get carried away with it. Remember O J Simpson, didn’t a court find him innocent of murder, you figure it out how some get away with crime.
If you cry babies have all the answers why don’t you run yourself, afraid of something, chicken’s.
I would be happy to e-mail you parts of the “certified” transcript, post you e-mail address.
Well now. I am glad I now have the ability to do this blog thing with all of you since there seems to be allot about me here. I would first like to thank anyone who supported me in my attempt to be elected as surveyor. But the fact remains I lost. Weather or not it was legitimate or not, I still lost. Chuck you need to stay out of law. You stated that no surveyor of record can do a survey. You had better do a little more research. There is a county here in Indiana that the surveyor of record can also do a survey because he is a licensed surveyor and he has his own company contracted to do the surveying for the county he is in. Now so that everyone is given the correct information about my situation. I do have a survey problem. I just had a meeting with our attorney and Mr Mackillop and Mr Bedrock the county attorney about the problem we have. Both Mr Mackillop and Mr Bedrock agreed with us this is a problem. It has been a problem for many years and they have no idea what to do as far as fixing it. With this said what is your take on the matter Chuck. I am so glad now that I didn't win for one reason. I am not responsible for anything in this county since I am not an elected official. With the handshake from your brother at the end of the primary, I congratulated Dennis on his win. I also said to him if my property problem still exists, I would be in his office every day until this gets fixed. The problem at hand is this. The county has hired an outside contractor to do the surveying and engineering and maintaining of the section line corners. This same surveyor has admitted they are not sure about the section corner in question, but maintains in there opinion this is the best they can do. My opinion not acceptable. With open admission from Mr. Mackillop and Mr. Bedrock the corner mark in question is the one at 421 and 10 west, because if you use it now as they have laid it out, many people have encroachment problems with their neighbors in my section. Now if you correct our section, what section adjoining ours gets screwed up. Lets do this simple. Lets say I have the surveys on record showing what you own chuck or your brother pulled. Lets say we find that as the county is laid out now, you have property lines going through your house or garage. Are you willing to move your house or pay some astronomical fees, to stay where you have resided for years. Just because some surveyors through the years have placed your property in legal dispute without any notification. I don't think so. So now your brother will have his chance to prove him self as the righteous man he claim's to be and fix these problems. I have invested close to 25,000 of hard earned money to get back 40 feet of property I purchased when I moved here. This property involves a 40 by 60 garage. I could have purchased a few more acres or up graded with that money instead. But due to the fact the surveyors office is only required to maintain paperwork on section lines, I guess this includes incorrect information since no one can make heads or tails out of it. The reality is the county as a whole can't do their job efficiently because they hire insufficient or unqualified people to do the work or the county officials them selves are the same or corrupt. I operate a trucking company, no big deal. Sounds like a job a monkey could do. Chuck how would you like it if I was transporting your prized possessions, a group of classic cars that you just purchased and destroyed them because I didn't know what I was doing and went under a 12 foot over pass with 12 foot six inches of your cars. I don't think sorry would cut it, and I really don't think you would like to wait 4 plus years before I decided to even talk to you about the problem. Now I can sit here and type allot of negative things about the Estoks that I have heard, but what does that do. NOTHING. Now with that said I am going to be able to give the Estoks a challenge. Lets see if they can fix the problems at hand. If they can fix the problems everyone wins. If they can't or choose not to, the civil suits that arise will bring this county to its knees. The excuse that the surveyor of record is only responsible for the section corners on paper is BS. He or she is also responsible for who they hire to get the correct information to be kept on file. Now I have one question left. For the 5 of 7 people who voted to spend the major moves money. Why did I just have to replace two steer tires on two of my trucks because of busted belts from driving on these so called roads of glass we have. With all of this high dollar and quality equipment we have purchased, why are our roads in the shape they are in. Is the real problem we don"t really have this equipment, or is it we don"t have anyone in the county smart enough to operate it. I hear we are going to lay people off, because we don't have the money to support the employees. Why don't you sell the equipment also since we have no one to operate it. Better yet, why don't the official in charge take a cut in pay and a cut in insurance and benefits. We all know that won't happen, so my idea is for those in charge, you had better get a quick education on how to operate highway maintenance equipment and fix our roads and make sure they are plowed. You can't blame me the truck driver for wrecking these roads. The taxes I pay far exceed what the standard individual pays for road tax. So where is that money going also. Now I would really like an answer to all this, but I really think no answer will come, for the fact it would incriminate many. So I will patiently wait for this answer. I will not hold my breath, because nobody wants to play with the blue kid. So if there is anyone who dislikes what I have said, agrees with what I have said, feel free to e-mail me. I have nothing to hide, and no one to be afraid of either. I learned something very very true. There is one thing in life that takes a life time to earn and only a split second to lose. Respect
Steven Schrader,
My apologies regarding a Surveyor cannot Survey property. You are correct in that a Surveyor can hold that office and Survey in the “Private” sector of the economy.
The fact that there is a county using the Elected Surveyor’s Company to do that Counties surveying would be a conflict of interest to most people, although there are special procedures to follow in such a case and I assume in the county you are relating to it was.
What I was attempting to translate was that a Government employee such as a County Surveyor cannot do work for the public from the office of Surveyor as many think he can, i.e., I want my property surveyed to sell, the County Surveyor cannot come out and do the Surveying on the public’s clock.
You are right on that, yes a county surveyor is not aloud to come out and just do a survey for the public. That is not the issue I am having. The issue here is the county has contracted a surveying company that in my personal opinion cant read a tape measure, leave alone a transit. They have been in charge of setting and documenting section corners, and the answer of we are doing the best we can is BS. If I had ever performed the same way they have in any of my jobs, I would be flat broke, out of a job and never aloud to do that type of work again. The problem is this Chuck, you and I both know this person is in a governmental position in a neighboring county. You also know that no other surveyor has challenged this person. I have done some serious research on this area here in San Pierre, and can fix this problem. The real problem is this, you and I both know if we fix this problem a few people are going to get upset because they are no longer going to be able to use the property they never actually owned. But its the cost to the tax payers that will go up to cover all the BS work and deals a few have made in the past. The surveys that are on record have so many uncertainties, inconsistencies and conflicts it is ridiculous. A class C survey is accurate within 6 inches, what the hell happened with mine at 41 feet. Your brother has his job cut out for himself. If he grabs this bull by the horns and steers it in the right direction, he will have my respect. But fair warning, if this continues much further, this county will not have to worry about finding the major moves money, it will have to figure out how it is going to handle the law suits that it receives over this. I am not just talking about myself here, I am talking about hundreds of people like me having the exact same problem. The longer this drags on the more people will find out about what is going on. When people find out they now have a non salable property due to these screw ups, I am sure they will not be waiting in lines to shake your brothers hand. They won't care who made the mess, just who is going fix it. If you find some time and want to see what a mess this is. Stop by. It would take less than an hour. When you see what I have to offer to fix this, only a fool would reject it. But then again I was a fool four and a half years ago. I moved here. My wife and I are looking into property in Silverton Colorado. I do plan on relocating there in the near future. My business can operate from anywhere. Remember, this is about the surveyor who is doing the setting and checking of corner sections for the county. Who claims in his opinion this is the best we can do, you start from the wrong place, you end up in the wrong place. That is why the surveys are screwed up here. Chuck I welcome you and your brother to come out and look at this. My number is in the book, give me a call, and we can set a time to look this over. In fact I welcome anyone who wants to come out and look at what has been done. The investment I have that is in jeopardy now, is in no way a laughing matter to me because of someones incompetency. I am sick of hearing from the powers of the county admit its screwed up. LETS FIX IT.
You can call Lee! He's a professional certified engineer?
But Lee is not intelligent to understand ?
sure Lee understands. Remember he is a professional licensed engineer who has worked for many municipalities! He said he would work for the people with no party politics. Perhaps he can do the job for free?
why dont you put your name in smart ass at least some are willing to sign there name. better yet why don" you run for office and keep ypur money
Lee hasn't given up yet. His non political ad was still on WKVI on Sunday, November 9th! No party affiliation, so where does that leave him now on the Planning Commission appointment?
Well seeing I was called out.. I would prefer not to run. It will be money well spent by me to watch someone who isnt in money position make good with it. A change by keeping you elected crooks out! It will be entertaining but also challenging to see someone honest make good. It would also be nice see some struggle without that monthly check and health insurance the taxpayers cough up. Just for that anonymous smart ass wisecrack Chuck, I am going to up it to $3,000 to the first Republican, Democrat, and even independents to run against you! Yes Lee, I didnt forget about you independents!
Wooooooooooooooo! Wait a minute I didn’t make no Anonymous Smart Ass Wisecrack. If I did I would sign the comment, as I do whenever I comment or respond.
Having said that I do agree with whoever. If you have $2,000 - $3,000 - $1,000,000 put your money where “Your” mouth is. Have all the answers, don’t like Nepotism, do something about.
One problem with you, the last I checked to run for a political office in the United States one must provide your full and real name, don’t seem you can do that.
Also here is the definition of Nepotism, doesn’t appear that getting elected by the people is one covered.
nep·o·tism
Encarta ® World English Dictionary
Favoritism shown to relatives: favoritism shown by somebody in power to relatives and friends, especially in “appointing them to good positions”.
No Chuck,
this one probably applies-con·flict of in·ter·est
noun
Definition:
clash between requirements or implications: a conflict between the public and private interests of somebody in an official position, or conflicts between a number of public positions
conflict of interest
–noun 1. the circumstance of a public officeholder, business executive, or the like, whose personal interests might benefit from his or her official actions or influence: The senator placed his stocks in trust to avoid possible conflict of interest.
2. the circumstance of a person who finds that one of his or her activities, interests, etc., can be advanced only at the expense of another of them.
You have the same problem facing yourself. Conflict of interest is in your mind, if in fact you have something be man enough to bring it out in public meeting or at least give a certain fact backed by documentation, not words from the jealous. Heresay doesn't do anyone any good nor does it make a fact. As I explained before regarding Ricky Chambers wife cheating in the election, the transcript at the Starke County Courthouse is public record and it speaks for itself, yourself, show me a document to bonify your story.
okay anonymus looks like you need to show your name.you can;t stand the fact that starke county doesn;t share your views of the estoks. you can;t stand the fact that some know you are real tight with the cheating chambers. read the court transcript.
James, Personally, I can care less about "the cheating chambers" as you put it. That is just water under the bridge.. perhaps the estoks' are just mad cause they beat them at their own game? One last thing James.. climb out of the estoks pocket and stop following them around like a lost puppy dog. Dont be a follower, it doesnt look good.
Jeepers Cheaters...I mean jeepers creapers! It does not surprise me that Mayor Chambers and his wife would cheat in the Mayoral election. These are two people who have cheated on each other. If you have to cheat in order to get something you want you either A) know that you don't deserve it anyway or B)are too dumb to figure out how to get it fairly
as a city of knox taxpayer i don't believe it is right to commit fraud in an election. chambers is receiving a police pension. that is not enough chambers and his wife decided it would be okay to cheat in an election so he could get even more tax payer money. water under the bridge to you muddy water to me. i have never been in the estoks pocket but i believe it is an honest pocket and you won't find any lint in it.
way to go you jeepers cheaters you hit the nail on the head.
Chambers is doing a wonderful job. There are grants in the works and it is not embarassing to invite industry here to work at bringing new jobs here. He is proactive and doesnt swirl in a chair sucking on those suckers being a gossip queen or king... There is also no more drama at city hall.. Just ask that Fornelli kid passing out that novel to everyones door step
Anonymous,
See ya, you are pathedic, chicken and a faceless coward. Dodge evrything that takes you to expose yourself or think outside or in your case, inside the box.
The Chambers (God Bless you, try them, you might like them) the Fornelli kid, he's a winner isn't he, passing out his whimping flyers (I think there has been 3 people in the entire area read them, he was 1, you and 1 other. In your opinion does that make 3)
Drama at City Hall, Chambers isn't there.
Give 'um hell James and Buffy
Wow "that Fornelli kid." He is so important that nobody can remember his real name! By the way, he is not a kid. However, if he is an aspiring novelist, fiction is definetly his genre.
james and buffy...LOL sounds like a spin off of Archie and Jughead...
Wow, all this from little ole Knox. Chambers is a worthless jerk. He might be working on grants but all he is doing is signing the line with the "X" and his wife is probably doing that. I hope Denny does a great job and everyone else that won in the elections this year. It's up to us to support and help them, even if we don't like them. If you don't like something they do in the future, because the past is pretty much to late to change, then you have ways to express that dislike. One way would be the "My door will alway's be open" by those in public office.
In the mean time, Chuck, can you help me get a political job too?
okay sydney i have read all your bull about my brothers chuck and dennis. you can't stand it that they have worked honestly for everything they got.they didn't get it from mommy like you did. all you did was sit on your but.my brothers didn't have to cheat to get where they are.i hope someone takes your 3,ooo dollars you didn't earn. and by the way linda belork and judy benninghoff are sisters and are sister-in-laws to my sister. don't you just love it. also i hear ricky is so busy in the mayors office he sits and plays solitair when he bothers to show up.
Knoxindiana1
You state can I get you a political job too ?
Yes, you have to put your name (again as the law requires in full on the ballot) and I might vote for you. If elected, I got you the job, right, remember those class's in Government, this is called Democracy as we know it. The one (in most cases) with the most votes wins. Simple isn't that.
Just doesn't get any better than this, Carlotta you are correct, Sidney,David, and Michael are having difficulty now and guess what, David is up next as he will be running for Judge, everyone remeber he got beat by 1,1000 votes 4 years ago, almost put him over.
This is something serious in regard to voter fraud. How come the prosecuting attorney has not done anything about it? She probably makes the most money of all the county offices. If she dont do anything then how is it that the Secretary of State wont do anything about it either. He even publically stated that he intends to be tough on voter fraud. I can see the frustration but would the former mayor win if the bad votes were thrown out?
THERE WAS FRAUD JUST READ THE COURT TRANSSCRIPT. YOU CAN'T LIVE IN OBER AND VOTE LEGALLY IN THE CITY ELECTION. THE PROSECUTER HAS ALL SHE NEEDS WHY SHE ISN'T DOING ANYTHING IS A GOOD QUESTION.
yep thats good question, how come the prosecuter dont do aneything? She will get you locked up for 15 years on having cold tablets but its ok to cheat votes.
Cold tablets alone won't get you fifteen years but a meth lab will. I'm guessing that is what you may be referencing with that statement.
You obviously have not read the court transcripts or like the Estoks, you have only taken out the parts that you like. I know this because I have read them (in numerical order, not as Chuck sent them out). The voter who cast his vote from Ober in the primary of 2007 also voted from the same residence in the primary of 2003. Chambers was not running for office in 2003 but Dennis Estok was. Why was this vote not an issue then? I can tell you why, because Dennis won that election and likely received that vote. The way I see it, is as long as everything plays out in favor of the Estoks then there is no harm, no foul. However, as soon as things don't go their way they have to have someone to blame and cry about being cheated. They all need to put on their big boy and big girl pants and get over it. IT'S OVER!
I also read the transcript and attended the hearings but I went a step further. On page 23 of the court transcript the voter from Ober states that he recalls voting in the last presidential election and does not remember voting in the 2003 city election. If you would do your homework you could have went to the county clerks office and asked for the voter precint history for Precinct 3. You will see that he is registered at his dad's address and did not vote in the 2003 election at all because he no longer lives with his dad. So I think it is safe to say this voter knew it was wrong to vote in the city election. However, since his father is good friends with Marlene Chambers he did what she asked. Chambers attorney was trying to blow smoke. If you would go to the Indiana Code IC 3-14-2 it says it is a Class D Fellony to solicate fraudulant absentee ballot applications. Shall we get into the forgery that was committed? The election board and the Secretary of State referred the matter to the Starke County Prosecutor Julianne Havens with a reccomendation for further investigation and prosecution. Since then the State Police have finished their investigation and now it is up to the prosecutor. All of this is public record and can be obtained from the County Clerks Office. Just as you say it is over it is not until the prosecutor makes her decision. The integrity of the election is at state and we cannot let this kind of conduct in our city elections happen again.
There was no presidential race in 2003. It was a local election and the Ober resident did vote in 2003The documents were there to confirm it. Chuck, you was not in the court room to know what was happening and the only thing you heard first hand was the laughter from everyone as the two attorney's representing the County and the Chambers' made your brother and his attorney look like the idiots they are.
Clearly people are going to take sides on this issue but the reality of it is that if things were as you portray them, people would be in jail. I know that you being a politician yourself, believe this gives you the "right" to tell people only what you want them to know. You need to realize that the people in the city of Knox and in this county are much more intelligent than you give them credit for. The fact that nothing has happened speaks in volumes as to what you call evidence. If you were really interested in letting people know how terrible your family was cheated, why didn't you send out the transcripts as they were received in numerical order? You chose what you wanted people to know and only what you believed supported your case. You are like the boys who cried wolf. You've done this far too many times and most people don't even hear you anymore. Also, you have some nerve calling another anonymous a coward when you are doing the same and while I am not the grammar police, it is "at stake" not state.
Also, Dick Daummer said you called him on election day of the 2007 primary and asked that he come and vote. He said he told you he didn't live in city limits anymore and you, CHUCK ESTOK, told him that it was ok, everyone does it. This is not second hand but was told directly to me by Mr Daummer. Would you like me to continue?
Anonymous,Im sure Chuck would like you to continue. We would all like to know.
MR. KNOW IT ALL. ANONYMUS DIDN'T SAY THERE WAS A PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION IN 2003. APPARENTLY YOU CAN'T READ. YOU APPARENTLY READ YOUR OWN TRANSCRIPT AND NOT THE ONE FROM THE COURT. YOU DON' SOUND TO SMART TO ME.
ANONYMUS YOU ARE SO JEALOUS THAT DENNIS ESTOK WON YOU CAN'T STAND IT, SO YOU WRITE LIES.
Hey Sid,
Getting pretty bad (did I spell this right) you still should of cut your hair in college, ever look back at those pics of you, shame-shame on you. By the way for all the readers sake (speeling okay) I checked with the transcript people of the Chambers case, no other transcripts were purchased, so in reading what this guy (spelling okay or is it gay)says about whats inside it is bullshit.
So honestly anonymous you have nothing better to do than bash people using your little keyboard and making sure no one knows who you really are. Good one. For being a grown man/woman you are acting as if you are a child. Way to go! Maybe you really don't want to show yourself because you know how bad you look and you're scared people will start bashing you. How ironic it is that what you are doing is ok but if someone were to do the same to you it would be tragic. If anyone needs to put their big girl pants on its you. If this is just one big game of guess who why shouldn't we all just be anonymous and as wonderful as you!
For all this talk about the Estoks, boy you sure do have alot of time on your hands. Maybe you should just recognize that the precious Chambers clan did in fact cheat and therefore like anyone else should face the consequences. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say Ricky is doing his job. As far as I can tell he hasn't changed one thing about this city and probably never will. Oh wait now I remember, since he's mayor he has more money to buy his spoiled son everything else he wants. That helps us out a lot. As for the Estoks.. they are good respectable people which is a lot more than anyone can say for you. What have you done for our community? Oh nothing? Hmm what a shocker.. get off your lazy ass and do something yourself if you are that determined to get things that you want done around here.
Give it up,
Lets leave kids out of this. It really has no place anywhere as how one would spoil their child.
You are so wrong it was not Chuck who wrote that it was me anonymous.I was in the court room and do not remember you there. If you were you would have noticed Chambers had two attorneys, the one he hired and Matesy who was there representing the county to make sure the Citizens of Knox got a fair election. Looks like to me Matsey was there on a job interview since Chambers hired him as the city attorney. Wouldn't you call this Nepotism? There was a lot of smiles outside the court room where Marlene and her family were serving the witness doughnuts,will the bribery ever end? You really need to check the voter history. Ober did not vote in 2003,but did vote in 2000 and 2004 not 2003. Look we do not see eye to eye, I belive in right and you belive in wrong. and Ober is one of many that voted outside the city limites,you would think Chambers being an x chief of police and Marlene being a postal carrier would know the rules and boundries of the city election.Need I say any more!
It's difficult to "leave the kids out of it" when Ricky's son tells everyone he's going to be the next chief of police. Do you think the current chief is aware of this???? The way I see it, the prosecutor needs to step up her game and put the Chambers behind bars where they belong.
Wow. Why does there have to be so much hate? I know the Estoks. They are good people. For those of you that don't know them...introduce yourselves. You will be pleasantly surprised.
you're right! We are pleasantly suprised!
How could you be inside the court room and watch Marlene Chambers serve doughnuts outside the court room? You're contradicting yourself.
If you want to know about cheating, you should check with the Estoks. They wrote the book. Maybe they are all mad because the Chambers found it and "stole" all their secrets(ohh that would be cheating)!
As for bringing the kids in on it, I agree that seems off limits. I'm sure the Estoks don't want to go there.
I want to know why Marlene Chambers was not called to testify during the trial. In all seriousness, if things are as Estoks say, this law suit was filed by them. She was on the witness list. Yet, no one on the plaintiff side thought she should be questioned? Does that make sense to anyone?
iwas in the court room and went out where the witnesses were and guess what? there was marlene serving doughnuts.
Were those doughnuts crisp creams or dunkin?
Who cares if she brought doughnuts, she is hot. Don't all parents spoil there kids????
Those doughnuts were fingerhuts,and Marlene is avaiable she likes to serve the citizens.
Well thats good she served donuts. Seems like a good idea. Does fingerhut need advance notice?
The Kernan-Sheppard report reads-
Gee does this happen here?
Recommendation #24: Prohibit employees of a local government unit from serving as elected officials within the same local government unit.
Allowing the employees of a unit of local government to serve as elected policymakers for that unit is an unacceptable practice for a number of reasons. First, it is a clear conflict of interest for public employees to benefit from their actions as elected officials. Second, it undermines the chain of command and procedures for discipline that are critical to effective public services, particularly public safety. And perhaps most important, it diminishes the faith that citizens must have that local governments act in the public interest.
marlene is very sexy and beautiful, can't wait until she leaves her ole man and becomes available. on a scale 1-10 she has to be a 100
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